Protect the flock! From JP and Hachette!
What are you doing right now?
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Permalink Reply by nathan_p on
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Since it seems to be unpopular with the mods for some reason, I'm upping my Tales Of The French Revolution post here. This is the unedited version; the one on MX is substantially edited because Danton has a filthy goddamn mouth.
While looking through this thread for Reasons, I noticed that the French Revolution post had gone missing, probably because I did an absolutely terrible job of editing it. I cut out some of the fluff and restructured it, and yeah, here it is again.
(Please PM or comment me with any questions about sources -- I doubt most people are interested in reading a meticulously annotated post on the internet.)
The French Revolution And You: Adventures With Georges Danton
Georges Danton was ugly, tall, and hilarious. He's not exactly a household name, but of the multiple distinct characters involved in the first French Revolution, he is my favorite.
Thus, this post, dedicated to his adventures (with a small sidenote on Robespierre).
Anyway. Danton.
When a (forged) list of People Who Are Dangerous And Need Killing surfaced at a dinner party he was attending (without his name, but with those of other dudes involved in the revolution), this is what he said when one guy proposed fleeing to England with Robespierre in tow:
"I'll cut the throat of any bastard who pulls out now! Fuck it, the thing's done, we've got to go through with it."
This story actually illustrates quite nicely a point about the Revolution: history teachers don't share any of the funny bits. You'll hear how Robespierre was a power-hungry maniac who had thousands of people murdered, but you won't learn about how he had a crush on his landlord's daughter, his adventures in being a dumb twenty-something, or his constant hazing by Danton.
These details, as much as they don't contribute to the story of Robespierre Was Crazy, help to flesh him out as a real person who happened to get tangled up in some strange historical events.
However, Robespierre was pretty dull -- at least, compared to Danton: at one crucial point he lost nerve and fled to England for a month and a half, for instance. He was also known to take bribes (albeit Robespierre was actually notorious for not being able to be bribed -- his nickname was "the Incorruptible"), and loved to boast about the charms of his wife Gabrielle.
On his own merits, Robespierre did lead a fairly interesting life (as did everyone else).
The one story I remember about Robespierre -- mostly remembered for giggling and sending people to the guillotine during the later phases of the revolution -- is that he was in a poetry circle type of group as a young man.
This dude later had a big hand in sending thousands of people to their deaths for being counter-revolutionary. This dude. Who danced around on riverbanks, probably had a stupid handshake with his arty friends, wore roses, and wrote really bad romantic poetry, including an ode to jam tarts from which I take my screenname.
(Later he decided lawyering was his thing.)
He also once turned down a party invitation by saying (to his best friend, nonetheless), "I shall stay home. Champagne is the very poison of liberty."
There's also another tale which I am unable to corroborate but which must, nonetheless, be told, because it involves Robespierre, a toga, and a whole bunch of papier mache.
I offer this as per the word of my high school AP Euro teacher, and whoever she heard it from.
France had been Catholic for hundreds of years. The King had the "god-given power" to pick bishops if he wanted. Everyone was Catholic. (Except the Protestants and Jews, who didn't count.)
This, however, would not do. It was counter-revolutionary.
Therefore, Robespierre brooded over some black coffee and oranges and came up with a really dumb idea that nonetheless led to a great story. Catholic God was right out for the new France. A Supreme Being? Sure why not. Nameswapping completed and some really iffy hippie-tastic woo-woo stuff written, all set for a big party.
Now, the young Republic loved parties more than anything, and he organized one such affair in the summer of 1793 or spring of 1794. They were going to put on a pageant to the Supreme Being.
With a tableau / bunch of nuts in costumes to complete it.
And who was to play the Supreme Being, triumphant atop a mountain of papier mache? Who would offer an embarrassed young lady something symbolic while dressed in an awkward toga?
Yes. None other than the Incorruptible.
Now, considering he was also part of the government responsible for coming up with a totally bonkers new calendar (with ten-day week and nonsense-word months named vaguely after weather conditions at that time of year), and that they also went as far to put some pretty crazy inscriptions over the gates of cemeteries, and the whole ode-to-jam-tarts debacle... I'm inclined to believe this one. It's no doubt been embellished, but the core is likely true.
However, no backup leads me to put the story as told to me in the realm of "crazy", much like the one where Victor Hugo puts these deathless words in Danton's mouth:
"Yes! I am a whore. I admit it. I sold my body -- but I saved the world!"
It's not exactly what it sounds like, but it is pretty interesting -- it involves a bunch of guys robbing the French National Archives, lots of political intrigue, and what would later be known as the Hope Diamond. As it is a rather long story, please consider this post one of two, because I have to return to my sources to collect the Tale Of Inept Robbery.
(Source for Tales Of Danton:
Christope, Robert. (1967) Danton: A Biography. Doubleday, NY. [Translated by Peter Green].)
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Permalink Reply by EndOfTheEarth on
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Looking at how some of you guys posted in ancient times using waybackmachine.com.
Interesting threads. "What is the Purple Mafia and why is it Purple"?
Betcha we could find some true gems with this thing.
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Permalink Reply by Lamp Post on
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I actually had to block that site on my computer a few years ago because it was eating /all/ of my time. XD
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Permalink Reply by Xuut on
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Oh dear. Sometimes I'm a little ashamed to admit I'm from that part of town. Or rather, just whenever I listen to this rap. x.x Why can't we just have shitty screamo bands like everyone else?
On an unrelated note, can any history nerds please tell me all about the creation of the state of Israel? After searching through Google, reading a bunch of books, I'm thoroughly confused. All I know is that Russia was not interested until they figured they could make Israel a communist state (which obviously, did not happen) and that it was some big thing between Britain and France or something. Also, everyone starts dying afterwards, but I don't need to worry about that. Just about the politics in 1947.
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Hang on while I type, I'm a Gratz graduate. I have a teaching certificate that specifically says that I'm licensed to tell kids about this.
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:D
I'll be sure to put in my references: "EndOfTheEarth: certified Gratz graduate."
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So the idea for Israel goes back to a guy by the name of Theodor Herzl, who lived in Russia in the mid to late 19th century. At the time there was a large discussion going on among jews about returning to Israel to set up a Jewish state. There were a lot of ideas being thrown around, including a proposition by the British that they provide the Jews with land in Uganda, but the idea fell through and, without any other thoughts on themanner, Jews from east Europe bagan major settling projects in the 1890s-1900s. At the time, it was one of several chopped up regions in the middle east owned by the British. This settling movement went on through the 1910s and 1920s, and by this point there were lots of Jews with socialist backgrounds moving out of east Europe and the new USSR. This was given a mixed reception by the British who continued to control the area, but many, many Jews got in anyway.
Enter the late 1930s. The British have a very weak hold on the area, as this section was grabbed by Rommel and the Germans prior to WWII. During this time Israeli settlers worked with Bristish special forces to conduct sabotage missions, but most of these were low-profile (though played up massively nowadays).
After 1945 there was another mass migration to Israel and the British noticed that the regional territories wanted independence, so they declared that they were pulling out of the area between then and the end of the decade. Also during this time, the Israelis applied for recognition from the UN and got it, much to the chagrin of the other regional groups. Especially interested were the French, who the Israelis somehow convinced that they would buy weapons and munitions from. By 1947, the Israelis were importing some French made weapons, but predominately stealing supplies from the remaining British garrisons. Because the British weren't fond of this, the whole wartime preparation was done in secret--I kid you not, they had this underground bullet factory that you accessed through a James Bond entrance of a moving washing machine, but I digress. At the same time you had all these new Arab countries about stocking up on old British and cheap soviet technology who were looking at the strategic trading position of Israel and deciding that they ought to blow it up and grab as much land as possible before their associates did.
Anyway, in 1948 the British said they were pulling out, and the second they did so, Israel declared independence. No one around them liked this, and Israel was attacked from all sides simultaneously. Through a series of exceptionally bizarre combat tactics (again, tangent, a fun story of the Israeli army hauling a tank to the top of a water tower and firing down on enemy troops with it) the Israelis won.
Around this point tensions between the Nuclear powers increased, and while Israel continued to buy from France, a NATO power, the surrounding Arab countries predominantly bought Soviet weaponry. Regardless of some of Israel's slightly socialist leanings, it's all about the money, so the Soviets sided with the Arabs, while NATO usually sided with the Israelis, as can be viewed through many, many UN votes at the time.
Since we're on the topic of history, these conditions continued through the 60s, when the Arabs attacked together a second time. The Israelis beat them again, and in the process bought an experimental nuclear power plant from the french. By the early 70s, they had nukes, but despite being attacked by all the arab countries a third time in the 70s, decided that they wouldn't use them, except as a last-ditch option. Also in the 70s, the Egyptians bought an experimental nuclear reactor from the Soviets--only to have the Israelis bomb it to pieces shortly thereafter. By the mid seventies, the French and Israelis had a falling out, but the US had picked up the slack for anti-USSR reasons, and the two countries have been trading military tech ever since.
Or, this is what I gathered in Hebrew school and on my trip to the place in 2006. Hope it helps.
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If you have any questions I'll answer them in the morning. I'm going to bed.
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1.) THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Apologies for the caps lock,I truly felt it was needed. :)
2.) When exactly did the British begin to lose power in the middle east? How did this occur? Who else, other than the Germans held land in that area? France?
3.) During 1944 I know Stalin stopped his anti-Zionist movement stuff, but what was his interpretation of the issue at hand? (This is a very specified question so you don't have to know it...) I mean, basically, this is one of the few instances where the Soviet and the U.S agree on something... And thirdly, (in regards to the Soviet) who were the other communist countries and thus, allies of the Soviets who (asides from Yugoslavia) voted for the partition?
4.) You went to Hebrew school? (Unrelated but yeah. XD)
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1) You're welcome, happy I could help.
2) As you may/may not know, the French held land in Libya and (i believe, double check this) Tunisia. When the Germans conquered the French in WWII, they also got Libya--there's a semi-famous WWII song about the shores of Triploi; that's about the Allied African campaign, and heavily fortified the place before Patton kicked Rommel's ass.
It is, quietly, implied by some that the French let Israel test their first atom bomb in the Libyan desert.
However, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and to a limited degree Saudi Arabia were all controlled, loosely, by the British.
I am not sure, offhand, why the British decided to pull out. If I were to take a guess, it would be due to the fact that they wanted to pull back resources and focus on repairing all the damage to the homeland caused by the Luftwaffe and von Braun, and because their manufacturing base and economy had been shot to pieces and generally supplanted by the US. Or, that's my best guess.
3) I don't know Stalin's interpretation, but I think that he liked the idea of having someone other than the British living there to trade with, which makes plenty of sense to me.
4) Four years of Jewish day school, then normal Hebrew School, Bar Mitzvah, Hebrew Confirmation, and Gratz University's Issac Meyer Wise Teaching Program. I was, technically, often the most religiously educated person in the classroom, sometimes including the teacher.Still my favorite essay title, "The Bible, God, and Jewish Nuclear Doctrine"Worth knowing, I myself am a Reform Jew with an upper-conservative education and background, so I come from the philosophy that not a single word in the Old Testament is strict, and that the whole thing can be read completely opposite, upside-down, and backwards if the social situation requires it, or if you are clever enough to know how to play with the words.If you want to know more, I highly reccomend The Bomb in the Basement by Michael Karpin. It essentially outlines the entire history of Israel's military history and foreign affairs from 1945 to 1980. A good chunk of it is available through Google Books.
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I've seen the earlier trailers, but good god, this perfectly combines every single part of what I thought made a perfect film in elementary and middle school.
:'''D
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