What are you doing right now?

[EndOfTheEarth]

Besides posting on here and replying to this thread. Original credit for this goes back to Fate and Nathan on MX.

[EndOfTheEarth]

My magical incurable chronic cough is back, for the eleventh time. We have twenty days to find the cause, or else I miss getting my wisdom teeth out, or I drown in my own blood in the operating room.

Not my idea of a good time.

[Xuut]

Yesterday was the Provincial election. Scariest day ever. And somehow, the pollers got it ALL WRONG. LOL WUT. And now we have a 62 Conservatives in legislature (fml) considering you only need 44 to have a majority, this is awful. 42 years of running and ruling Alberta. Fan-freaking-tastic. 

Also, I think I should be used to being told that no one is going to come to something important in my life, but I can't help but be a little mad. And of course, no one who I'm mad at will ever know because I don't want to burden them. Damn. 

[Omega]

Politics sucks.

[Xuut]

Pretty much. 

At least you guys have proportional voting. 

First-past-the-post voting is the most aggravating voting system and it pisses me off a lot. So what if there's instability in proportional? If 51% of the votes aren't actually used, how is this a proper representation of a democracy?

[Omega]

New Zealand's politics is so ridiculously stable that very little happens.

The biggest scandals right now are about a convention centre being built in Auckland and a group of farms being sold to an overseas-based company.

[Xuut]

Everyone here is still bitching about the oil sands in my province and selling it to China instead of the USA. People who have a very right wing of thinking apparently think it's the greatest thing since NAFTA. People who are less so don't agree with it due to environmental concerns and the fact that the oil pipeline violates a couple of aboriginal treaties and whether or not we really want that type of relationship with China.

I kind of wish we had yours.

[Omega]

Two solo flights today.

I still only land well about half the time.

[Omega]

Also got my Nav exam result back. 85% A solid pass!

[Xuut]

uuuugh. There are two girls in my Bio class who since having watched a Shark Documentary, haven't shut the fuck up about fucking sharks. One calls them her favourite animals and how cute they are (which don't get me wrong, good for her. Rotties are my favourite dogs and they have the worst rep as large vicious dogs) but now they're going around having a petition for Canada to stop the legal trade of shark fins which pisses me off because:

1.) It has no regard for culture, IN A MULTICULTURAL COUNTRY. So the shark fin I am eating may be illegally harvested. Is that much better than the cow I bought at the super market who is mercilessly slaughtered? At least the shark saw some days of freedom. But no, shark fins are awful because oh my god, western culture doesn't eat it! Because oh my god, sharks are so cute and we totally shouldn't kill them to harvest them as food. Oh, but we can all fucking eat the god damn fucking cow who is fucking locked up in a box for its entire life until it's electrocuted to death. That's just fucking fine and dandy because dammit, EVERYONE LOVES STEAK. Fuck you guys. You piss me off and clearly are disregarding domestic policy of a MULTICULTURAL COUNTRY. 

2.) It's not going to work. It's like weed, if the fucking people want it, they'll get it. Canada can't just ban it, all that will do it make it underground. It's estimated that by 2050 Canada will have an Asian majority, typically, people of Asian descent consume shark fin BECAUSE IT'S PART OF OUR FUCKING CULTURE, JUST LIKE HOW EATING COW IS FOR PEOPLE OF EUROPEAN DESCENT. Canada can, however, work harder to ensure that the shark fin is regulated and legally, and ethically safe for the sharks. THAT would be reasonable. A petition to stop it completely is not only inefficient but a blatant disregard for a minority's (for now) culture. 

3.) They absolutely refuse to listen to me and all their equally as easily manipulated friends (they all jump on the same bandwagon) are all agreeing to sign it because OH MY GOD KILLING SHARKS IS SO BAD. While disregarding all the animals they're probably killing. Like the cows, chickens, pigs, etc. 

Also, bitches jump into my territory of expertise. The environment? Endangered animals? Poaching? I might not be a know it all in provincial/federal politics, but bitches, animals and the environment is what I live and breathe for. 

[Omega]

1) It has very little to do with culture. Things like female genital mutilation are 'cultural', that does NOT mean they should be legal.

IMHO the process of finning should be illegal, because I know it's unsustainable at present. Because I know that many fishermen take the fins and chuck the sharks back into the water to effectively drown. That's WAY less quick than a bolt or bullet to the brain. It's nothing to do with freedom. Neither sharks, nor cows have any concept of it, and IMHO, stalls aren't a nice way of raising meat either.

2) Agreed. If things are legal, they're generally regulated. They're sustainably taken, there are ethics involved in the slaughter, everything's quality controlled, the additives are the beneficial kind rather than, say, mercury and arsenic and what not. If things are illegal, you've got no idea what the fuck's happened to what you've eaten because it's illegal.

That said, YOU are supporting the illegal practice rather than working for better legal practice. Which makes you, from my point of view, as bad as the girls you're railing at. They might be 'wrong', but they have the best of intentions, even if they are a tad misguided about the reality of things. They'll learn. You might be 'right', but you prefer to eat your illegal meat and support the black market trade, rather than use your consumer pressure to advocate for a change. You, as a knowing consumer, are complicit, which makes your later comments at best hypocritical.

3) Straw man argument. Do stay away from these.

This may be true, but your rant here is not the best example of how to debate about these things.

[Xuut]

1.) I think there's a fine line between what some people claim to be establishing new culture by doing really weird things (although, I guess if they found a safe way to do that, power to them?) and a thousand year old tradition that my parents have grown up with. Do I eat shark fin? No. I prefer fish maw soup. Does my dad? Yes. Will I tell him he can't eat it because a shark died for it? No. Because he's grown up with it and it's a delicacy he's only had once or twice in his life. Also a little off on a tangent here, but arguably, western culture mutilates themselves to be cultural too. Fashion and beauty are the worst of the two offenders. Skinny jeans (I am guilty), braces, piercings (guilty), and tattoos are some of many.

Cows are capable of feeling miserable. So are chickens (they actually capable of quite an array of emotions including stres and anxiety) but being cooped up in awful environments (which are the case in Canada/other developed nations) and that DOES make them miserable/unhappy and the way they are killed isn't exactly fantastic either. Slaughterhouses use electrocution as their method of death sentence this is of course, after the cows has lived in shitty conditions for its entire life. The shark at least, hasn't lived under such conditions. It probably hasn't faced the level of stress/anxiety that the cow has. I'm not saying that finning is good or the slaughter of sharks is good, it's not. It's pretty bad. But I don't think that banning it, in such blatant disregard to the culture effects it will have (even though some Chinese people are boycotting it, people in China and Hong Kong still have it because it's tradition), is the solution to this problem. That's just going to lead to a blackmarket, raising the shark fin prices (smuggling is a wee bit expensive after all) and a larger demand for the sharks because there is still a consumer demand, it's just been forced underground.

2.) As of right now it's still legal (in every province but Ontario which was only recently banned) and banning it isn't going to impact it greatly. Other than shove it down the black market just like weed.

I did inform them of these things though, and I was ignored. Which was kind of why I posted that rage rant, I was really pissed off. Especially after I argued about the importance of cows and was told (in a somewhat joking manner, although I'm sure they know I was angry after I went on a rant about how cows should at least be raised in an open farm since oh hey, we eat them) that "cows aren't important because they're not the apex predator of the ocean".

I think that rather than a petition for banning (because Canada doesn't even produce shark fins, nor do we take a whole bunch) we should strive harder for the regulation and changing people's opinions to reduce the consumer drive. People will get what they want, we're selfish beings. Just because you can guilt trip me (and yes, it's bad that I'm breaking the law to buy a shark fin but people do that for weed too, people support a lot of awful things just on the basis because either a.) they want it or b.) it's cheaper). Writing a letter to a federal or even local politician about how we should sending NGO groups (because the countries that sharks live by typically, aren't exactly the most trustworthy countries or stable countries) to help catch people who are harvesting sharks in an unsustainable way or illegally is a lot better than just banning it outright. My rage was mostly from their refusal to listen to me and how all their friends just jumped on the bandwagon. This felt a lot like the KONY 2012 thing, which obviously, we were all taught to think a little critically from.

[Omega]

Still,  the first was just a point that cultural =/= right, nor moral, and that things like this need both sides of the story told. Lud, think about what life would be like if the religious extremists (Taleban/Westboro baptists/pick your fundies/cult of choice) got to make decisions about everything for everyone, regardless of a person's belief. Oh wait, that's the US if the republicans win. Or your Conservatives, for a somewhat milder example.

That said, I suppose implying horrific mutilation of little girls' bodies is in the same category as killing sharks is a bit naff on my part, but then so is the fashion thing on yours. We might be fashion victims, but usually we're willingly so. Most are smart enough to stop short of pain and permanent injury, death or the extinction of a species.

I get that eating of shark fin is a cultural thing, that it's a delicacy and highly prized, that people will pay a lot of money for. I don't understand why, but I accept that as so. I also understand that if no restrictions are put on finning, then all the sharks will disappear, and that's bad. So, we have to find, and many places are currently trying to find, a middle ground between what people want and the extinction of several species. Sometimes it's all due to internet crusader pressure.  But, naturally, this middle ground falls more on the shark's side of things. Of course, if sharks go extinct, then nobody gets to eat shark fin at all.

Yes, people are beginning to boycott shark fin products and the practice of finning, which is just the evolution of culture. Think about where we'd all be if we had the same cultural mores as a thousand years ago, or five hundred, or even fifty. And this, education and what not, is the only way the finning practice will cease to be commercial on the current scale - when demand goes away, or becomes merely subsistence.

Then we have the discussion of legality versus illegality and the black market.

Of course making things illegal doesn't make them go away, the demand (and therefore the profit) is still there. Law (and punishments) are the big stick for whacking people who get caught in the process of black market selling. But that's why the laws currently in place exist. So that the bastards who ARE practicing despicable finning practices can be whacked. Those "small fish" to pardon the pun, even in total ban areas, those who catch shark themselves for their families for cultural reasons are generally left alone. This is usually considered an acceptable loss. Think online piracy. They don't go after silly teens downloading movies and music, they go after the people running megaupload and thepiratebay who make money. The fact is, if it's legal to fin, to import/export buy and sell fins, then people will do so. If finning is legal, then governments of countries where the practice is allowed are complicit. If a product is more easily available, people will buy it. The perceived demand increases, and the number of sharks killed increases. People who'd think twice were it illegal will become consumers. Like with weed. Governments know this. They can't do much messing around in other countries (see the whaling debate for a charming example), so they do what they can in their own. By restricting or banning. Three species of shark are endangered, other populations are down 80% in numbers. We as planetary inhabitants can't afford NOT to do something about this, and those involved in finning are culprits in the decrease in numbers.

It's actually legal here, so long as the shark in question is dead. I'm not sure about how I feel about this, and I'm relatively sure it's more common than I realise.

I agree with you on the girls being a bit muppety, but they do still have good intentions. Yeah, they don't listen to you, and nobody's likely to listen to them, and it doesn't help anything much. They probably passed on KONY last month, they'll have something else next month. As you say, people are inherently selfish, and as such, some see themselves as the sole arbiters of what's right, and selfishly refuse to discuss or debate, because that might prove their view wrong.

I wasn't trying to make you guilty, although rereading it, it probably comes off as such, just aware of how your actions could be perceived... It's all very well saying things, but if your actions don't back that up, nobody takes you as seriously as they might otherwise. Did those girls know that you've eaten shark? That might have some bearing on their actions, although more likely they're feel-good internet crusaders.

As for the cows thing... yes, some people keep cows in pretty shit conditions. And that's not okay. But this is not the norm. Shitty conditions and shitty feed makes for crap meat which earns less. With the increasing awareness of where food comes from, this will hopefully disappear. Same with chickens.

But your argument here means nothing. Just because one practice is stated to be "as bad as" another means nothing. Except that maybe BOTH should be banned. Just because weed is "no more harmful" than tobacco doesn't mean we should legalise weed, it means we should seriously think about a ban on tobacco.

And don't get me properly started on KONY. Seriously.