Quantum Physics in my own fic: Salubrious Snape Oil

[DZMom]

I'm bringing this discussion as a continuation of a chat started with EndOfTheWorldEarth on MDW. It branched off of the HP7: DH2 move discussion. Sorry about mangling your username, EndOf. I wondered why the name seemed apocalyptic when I typed it the first time around.

Anyone is welcome to give their two bits or whatever other bits might be pertinent. After all, naughty bits are completely relevant to this "mature"-rated story.

EOTE provided this resource which I promptly ignored because I'd rather just be spoon-fed knowledge instead of actually reading something:

Timeline by Michael Crichton

 

Well, now, because I'm both lazy and vainglorious, I'm just copying the text from my fic here and we can discuss theoretic shite from there, hopefully with some occasional nods to how I might incorporate theory into characters' speech. Look for the physics in the nifty bold text.

The text below is excerpted from Chapter 8 of Salubrious Snape Oil. Most of the fic doesn't dwell on Quantum Physics, so don't get your hopes up. The majority of the story is literary smut.

Set in early September of 1991, which is the first year Harry Potter, Hermione Granger, et al. attended Hogwarts. In this scene Hermione Granger is twenty years older than Severus Snape, a feat managed by a time traveling device she created. She is describing how the device works. Actually she just talks about the physics behind the device. Describing how it works is beyond my abilities as a writer. Most readers were confused by the discussion. I admit I slapped it together hoping against hope that it would make sense.

[Severus] took another long sip and then put down his tea. Scratching his chin, he leaned back and then folded his hands over his stomach. "What exactly did you want to tell me when you invited me to join you for lunch?"

Hermione looked back at him. "How best to explain this?" she thought out loud. After a moment of contemplation her face brightened. She started out engaging Severus directly, but then tended to get a far-away look as she spoke. He nodded and had managed to stay with her convoluted explanation. At that moment she was droning, "During the summer vacations between my years at Hogwarts I studied Quantum Physics in the Muggle world. I thought it would complement my Arithmancy studies and would perhaps one day lead to Muggles understanding magic." She paused. "You're skeptical about the Muggle part, aren't you?"

"Have I said anything?"

"No." That realization led to her giving Severus a questioning look. "More tea?"

He nodded and handed her his cup and saucer. After she poured them both piping hot refills and they flavored their drinks, she settled back and looked off to the corner as she resumed her explanation. "There is a theory in quantum mechanics that is called Wave-Particle Duality. It all relates back to the question, 'What is light?' Is it solid or is it more like sound, which, well, is like ripples in a pond, I suppose."

"I'm not ignorant of Muggle Studies. I know what sound waves are." His voice mocked her attempt at dumbing down her language.

"Oh. Right, then. Modern theory postulates that light is made out if photons, which behave both like matter and like waves, hence the 'duality.' Well, I continued studying and I then I came across Schrödinger's Cat." She laughed a bit. "It really did sound a bit like the Dark Arts. Fortunately, the cat never existed anywhere but in Schrödinger's mind. Or perhaps an alternative universe. Such as one where magic and Muggles don't conflict. I'll have to look into that..."

Severus breathed a deep sigh of impatience. Hermione made an apologetic quirk with her lips. "Stay on topic," she chided herself. "Schrödinger addressed a concept in physics which states that two different states of matter can be superimposed on each other. Einstein said it was like a keg of unstable gunpowder. At any moment the gun powder would be in a state of either exploding or the converse: not exploding.

"So Schrödinger followed up on that idea and wrote his own theory. He said, 'I put a cat in a box. There's a hammer that can smash a vial of poison which will kill the cat instantly. There are only two options for the hammer's behavior: strike the vial and kill the cat or remain stationary, thus preserving the cat's life.'"

Severus chuckled. "Yes, I can see Dark Wizards delighting in such antics."

Hermione grinned and nodded. "Then Schrödinger said, 'No one knows if the hammer has smashed the vial until the box is opened. So the cat will either be dead or it will be alive when I look inside. But according to Einstein's theory, before I take a peek, the cat inside is both dead and alive at the same time. The two states are superimposed on the single cat until the box is opened and its fate is revealed.'"

"I'd hate to be that cat. Nasty bit of magic involved." Severus mused.

"No magic involved, unless magic is accelerating particles inside the CERN's Large Hadron Collider." She laughed at her own joke.

Severus gave her a puzzled look. "Are you always this verbose?"

"I am when I have something interesting to talk about."

"Perhaps you aren't such a good judge of what is interesting. I hardly need a refresher in Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen. Do you have a point, other than to prove that you know about their controversial 1935 'EPR' article?"

Hermione blanched. "So you are familiar with quantum theory?" When he said nothing, she coughed and fiddled with her sleeves. "I became interested in the Many Worlds theory in which multiple realities can exist at once. I encountered theories about the dimension of time and learned about the hypothesis of Worm Holes enabling travel from one point in time to another point in time. Then I fully investigated the existing magical devices which enabled time travel. I was dissatisfied with the requirement of going back in time and being consigned to re-live an entire period over again. But there were no other options."

Severus nodded. "There is always a cost to tampering with time. It ages you."

Hermione nodded. "Yes, there is a cost. Which leads me to my main point. At last." She chuckled and then became quite serious. "I have developed a magical time device. I tried to access Worm Holes without magic, but it was beyond my abilities. So now I have a device which takes me to a precise time and location. Then I reverse the magic and return to the exact time and place I left."

Severus rubbed his chin, considering the possibility that she could be speaking the truth. "So you pay the time cost on the other side, then?"

"Precisely."

"And you aren't limited to small jumps in time. You could go back … how many years?"

Hermione scolded, "That's a funny way to ask a woman her age." Then she smiled and said, "Guess."

 

Caveats and explanations

I moved the numbers around before I knew of any replies. The numbers in red correspond to EndOf's 1st reply. First!

1. 1. I don't even remember why wave-particle duality is important to Hermione's discussion of time travel.
2. 2. Schrodinger's Cat is a thought experiment, which means it proves its point through rationale argument, not a laboratory. It was a response to the 1935 EPR article which presents the theory of relativity, if memory serves me correctly.
3. 3. Shrodinger's Cat and CERN's large hadron collider relate to time travel because of the nature of some particles existing for short periods of time in one place and then disappearing; the splitting of particles at CERN where the twin of the split particle disappears as soon as the other twin's existence is measured.
4. 4. My general knowledge of #2 comes from reading Decoding the Universe: How the New Science of Information Is Explaining Everything in the Cosmos, from Our Brains to Black Holes by Charles Seife (2007). It's an enjoyable read, for the most part.
5. 5. I chose the Worm Hole theory for Hermione's time travel.
6. 6. This content is now combined with some of the original #8, I think. I was still thinking it through after I hit post. Sorry about any confusion. I didn't know how to resolve the coming back and forth and the time when I wrote this. I've decided to make a joke out of "String Theory" and I will at some point have Hermione explain that she can return to her own time without getting lost in parallel universes because there is a "string" of magical energy linking her (and her clothes, objects, etc.) to the exact place and time that she left.
7. 8. I originally wrote something about the time travel into Hogwarts Castle being similar to apparition. It wasn't clear. I removed it before I knew there was a reply. The "string theory" prevents Hermione from getting lost in the Many parallel Worlds.
8. 7. The bit about time travel having a cost is entirely my own fabrication. It may be true, as I considered it rational. I've seen some other fanfic authors talking about this lately. I wonder if they are imitating my theory or if everyone rational thinks this way. Not that I can honestly claim to be rational.

• These bullets give more explanation on what is currently #8. The bullets interrupted the numbering system, which is why I re-arranged them in the first place.
• Using the Time-Turner device of JKR's creation, the person has to live that span of time that they go back. Thus they will, by my thought, age. When the time in the past winds back to the time they "left" their aging would show instantly. So, for all those going back in time twenty-years stories, 7th-year Hermione would be 30-40 years old when the times reconciled. That is how my theory works, anyway.
• I needed a device that permitted periodic travel back in time without the penalty of having to live all those years in the meantime. I got muddled in my thinking about time "costs." The time spent away still ages Hermione in my fic. The difference is that she spends increments of time away. I don't know how I made my brain think that she was paying the time cost on the returning portion of the travel.
• If Hermione visits Severus for 10 hours and then returns, she experiences something like jet lag. Even if it's still 8 a.m., her body reacts as if it is already 6 p.m. when she gets back.
• Multiple time traveling Hermiones can be in the same past at the same time. Can we say "harem?"
• Hermione in the present can be with a time-traveling Hermione

 

 

[EndOfTheEarth]

D:

EndOfTheWorld?

 

Regarding your caveats:

1) The wave-particle theory isn't involved. Remove it.

2) Unless I'm mistaken (and it's possible) Schrodinger's cat was used to point out the issue of probability in quantum mechanics. This has to do with electrons, If I remember what I read correctly: An electron can't ever be in one specific place, but it has varying probabilities of being in certain places in the various atomic shells. The machine is rigged to wait for an event to happen, but because the event is probable instead of on/off, this creates the superimposition. That's where the cat comes in.

3) This disappearance involves micro-wormholes and...I think it was called quantum foam theory. This is how the time machine in Crichton's Timeline works (see why I wanted you to read it!), by crunching a person down to a subatomic level, spitting the assembly data through a sub-atomic wormhole, and copying them back into existence on the other side.

4) I'll check it out, it's probably a more legit and up-to-date source than Crichton.

5) I've done research into the many worlds thought (I refuse to call it a theory. It's the premise of one of my original fic. projects) and it comes with the problem of arguing out infinite regression...essentially there being room enough in a finite case for infinite universes. Therefore the best way to do time travel...the only way really, is to install a loop paradox, like Rowling did in book 3.

6) See my comment regarding the worm holes. Big ones are hard to come by, unless Hermoinies time-turner also has Chrichton's quantum-teleporter involved.

7) You can make up a cost...how are you doing the time travel? The issue with Crichton's device was transcription errors.

8) Time travel is not apparation, again as we see in Prisoner of Azkaban.

 

I'll comment on the prose later.

[DZMom]

Damn! You are quick in responding. Here I thought I'd have to go PM you to flag down your attention. Next time, I won't post my discussion and edit it right away.

I flaked on writing your name. Thank you for replying despite my stupidity.

I don't know what loop paradox Rowling used for time travel. I'll need to look it up. The only knowledge that I do have is that she made it so that traveling to the past would not change events that happened in the present. But wait, is Buckbeak another Schrodinger's Cat? I've gone and confused myself again.

As for wormholes, I suppose I need to invoke magic and, in the end, willing suspension of disbelief despite that fact that readers aren't willing to suspend it for wormholes or don't care about wormholes in the first place. There's got to be a name for this kind of writer's arrogance on the TV Tropes site.

I suspect that there was originally a logical connection between each area of quantum physics that I highlighted in the text. I did not endeavor to understand it fully.

The Schrodinger's Cat is just too amusing to leave out.

I really need to read Quantum Physics for Poets by Leon M. Lederman and Christopher T. Hill (2011) before my library renewals run out. I don't know if The Quantum Story: A History in 40 Moments by Jim Baggott (2011) will be helpful, but it's on hold for me at the library, too.

When you mentioned Crichton the first time, I wasn't thinking novelist for some reason. And my rude comment about wanting to be spoonfed was my attempt at humor. And also a reflection of the fact that reading too many books about quantum theory hurts my brain and my marriage since 70% of my waking hours are already spent reading and writing (and no, I am not sure that 70% is accurate because I'm not really one to figure things out with numbers).

[EndOfTheEarth]

The concept of a loop paradox

A) Marty gets a letter saying he needs to go back in time to kill a person who would try to kill him in the future.

B) Marty goes back in time, kills said person, and the time machine breaks. 

C) Marty realizes that no one has come to move the time machine, or send the letter to his future self.

C) Marty builds an identical time machine in its original location, and sends his younger self a letter.

E) See A

In short, the future goes exactly one way, and whatever created the loop either doesn't exist, or is a fabrication. So in Prisoner of Azkaban, Harry originally was vaguely aware of themselves going back in time, so Hermoine sends them both back, so they can be vaguely aware of themselves going back in time. Buckbeak is never Schrodinger's cat: He never died, because he was freed in every loop.

 

So for the wormholes, add a magical element; you claim that Hermoine ages in going through?

I think you're looking for a biological element, Magic needs to work on a biomechanics level, not just a quantum mechanics level. It's far, far easier to explain DNA wear-and-tear than making Hermoine run around the universe (or vice versa) to create a time difference.

And you can still use Schrodinger to point out that you can have two different Hermoines existing at once. Not only must there be alternate universes with alternate cases, but an infinte number of time-travel universes for each one (Marty arrives at 2 instead of 3, Marty A interrupts Marty B (or vice versa), Five Martys show up at once, Marty doesn't show up but Doc Brown does instead--or five Doc Browns show up, etc) Therefore there must be a probability of them being in a universe where it can happen.

 

And don't worry about Crichton. Assume I meant Crichton the doctor the first time (same person).

 

As for the story and prose, it's intriguing. I'll take Hermoine describing real physics any day.

My Memory of the book versions of the characters is too foggy to comment on accuracy...I think the book version of Snape was more verbose than Al Rickman, so what you have up there is alright.

 

I'm curious about the rest and I enjoy time travel puzzles. I'll be taking a glance through your whole chapter, I think.

 

And I caught your humor, and agree with you entirely. Spoon-fed knowledge is typically more amusing anyway. ;)

[Fake]

Strictly speaking, time travel as we know it is largely impractical, even with Magic--assuming you involve real world physics, that is, and not just, "I spin the spinny thing and poof! Time travel!" I understand the physics behind the whole, "Beam me up, Scotty!" concept that EndoftheEarth refers to, but it seems like a waste of time and money to actually send a person back in time. Rather, it'd be more convenient to just create a new person at the other side--or, better yet, to alter an already existing person's memory. In other words, there's no reason to effectively kill a person before making a new, identicle person on the other side.

[EndOfTheEarth]

Actually, future-directed time travel has already been accomplished using basic relativity, if you synchronise two clocks, and put one on an aircraft traveling supersonically for a few hours, then the one on the airplane will be slightly behind the one on the ground. Using this method, you can use keppler's law to plot an elliptic course around a heavy gravity source, a star for instance, and catapult yourself a month into the future in a much shorter time. Use an even heavier gravity point with a faster turn, a black hole for instance, and you can expand the effect to years.

So I, for instance, have spent days worth of time traveling by commercial airplane. As a result, I'm about one second younger then I might have been otherwise. That isn't saying much, but the concept is still there.

 

But I do agree with you about the conceptual issue on teleporter philosophy. Crichton gets into that too.

[Fake]

I don't consider Einstein's theory of relativity time travel, at least in the sense we're thinking. It's merely making time appear differently towards different atoms--in other words, it proves that the progression of time is relative. While it's technically time travel, it's no more time travel than time progressing normally. Sadly, this applies to all future directed time travel in my eyes, sort of taking the romance out of it.

 

For the record, when I said, "Time travel as we know it," I meant, due to just not thinking what I was saying through, going backwards. Didn't even consider forwards.

 

He does? ...Yeah, probably should have guessed that.

[EndOfTheEarth]

Oh, so you'd prefer past time travel as it's considered by Orson Card and in Warehouse 13, where you take over the body of a person present in that time?

Regardless, you're sending data back. It wouldn't be any more complex to send a mind back than any other instructions.

[Fake]

...You're very anachronistic in how you reply, you know that?

 

Not a bad thing either.

 

Anyways, I'm more concerned with the morality of killing a person in the present and creating a new, identicle version in the past than the complexity. It'd be easier to just transplant knowledge into your past self's mind. Or, better yet, to alter something so as to give the past information--I.E, alterring a computer, or a conveniently blank stone tablet.

 

Which would actually be a lot simpler and safer than messing around with actual humans, come to think of it.

[EndOfTheEarth]

Ah, but then we get into the philosophy of the matter. What is to say that inserting new data, regardless of how it's done, would be any different than inserting an entirely new mind? In altering the past person in any way, are we not "killing off" whomever that person may have been otherwise?

[DZMom]

Lucky for me, I've written into the fic already "the spinny thing" that spins and *poof!* Just like that the li'l lady returns to her own time (and place).