What are you doing right now?

[EndOfTheEarth]

Besides posting on here and replying to this thread. Original credit for this goes back to Fate and Nathan on MX.

[EndOfTheEarth]

1) I agree, it is unrealistic, but I'm thinking in terms of solutions, not realism. TV networks haven't been attacked before, it's new territory, and we won't know how it should go until it happens.

2) Part of it is see-above. The other part is part of an anti-corruption statment; a congressman who votes 'no' to a corruption check looks bad in the eyes of their voters--and besides, 'charitable donations', as far as I know, are not protected by any secrecy laws, so there is nothing to object to at the moment.

3) It's called voting and writing to their congressman. You simultaneously write letters and sign a petition, that way, if the mass of letters is ignored, then the petition can be presented as evidence of foul representation by the representative, and will result in either a demand for impeachment, or a guaranteed change in office, come the following election. If not, then the group can bring allegations of ballot corruption to court, and the rest can be figured out from there. This is the way the system is designed; yelling with a poster board is not a formally submitted statement, and doesn't need to necessarily be recognized by government officials.

4) The top 1% are the top 1% because they represent large business corporations or the entertainment industry. Want to kill the corporations? Stop buying products. Want to kill sports? Stop buying tickets and watching on TV. Want to kill the entertainment industry? Stop going to the movies and buy a Nelson Rating Box, and tuning it to other channels. In short, boycotting, it's the only way to put any of these groups down in a free-market system. It worked to produce reform in the 60s and 70s, it should work today.

Those are my attempts at answers. They aren't the detailed 100-page essay versions, but they're the most specific I feel like getting on this forums. I also want to acknowledge that all the answers I cited above are tough to execute, but they are not so tough that they can't be done--this is a decision by the people, depending how much they want something to happen.

 

And the movie is nice, but it lacks the samples needed to support the details, and it doesn't offer any solutions either.

[Contradiction]

1. Idealism doesn't really help, though. I mean, it'd be lovely, but I cannot see it happening ever. Under any circumstances.

2. How many people do you know who pay attention to the way their Congresspeople vote? Besides, politicians are very good at bullshitting excuses for not passing something that would benefit the majority of Americans.

3. More people will pay attention to the simultaneous gathering of thousands of angry people with signs than a person with a list of signatures. It might not be officially recognized, but it sure as hell will be noticed on one level or another. 

and will result in either a demand for impeachment, or a guaranteed change in office, come the following election

In a perfect system, sure. But what crimes will they be impeached for? The Senate tries impeachment, and they're hardly going to convict someone for behavior of which many of them are also guilty. And, again, how many people do you think will actually vote so as to remove this person? 

4. Those industries are far too huge to be killed by boycotting in the real world. Too many people don't pay attention, and too many people think that what they do won't make an impact. Hence a voter turnout of just above 50%. And that's just for electing representatives - hardly something that will make an immediate impact on how they can live their life.

 

this is a decision by the people, depending how much they want something to happen

Unfortunately, the people who really want, who really care about something happening are a minority, and they don't all agree with one another about what they want (OWS vs Tea Party). Thus, any protests requiring the disruption of the majority's lives will never be successful.

[EndOfTheEarth]

1) See my concluding statement.

2) I know that people pay attention to how their congresspeople vote on votes that make headlines, like the whole medicare thing. Which leads, again to kicking that politician out of office come the next election cycle.

3) Which is why you do both. The current group only has signs. Combine signs with the petition, and you're set.

Alright, so impeachment was going a bit far, but evidence like that could be damning in an election, which means that you'll have the problematic person out of there in four years or less, unless you can find something better to stick on them.

4) Voter turnout of 50% is a surprisingly good number--I'd imagine that due to the competitive nature of these companies a cut in interest of 5-10% would be crippling. Besides, percentage points are overrated--during the American Revolution only 33% of people actually supported breaking from England, and that was one heck of a huge change.

 

I don't see why not, immediately after September 11 people wanted the majority of people wanted the crap bombed out of Afghanistan, and the resolution to do that passed congress almost unanimously. So yeah, maybe it will take a horrible event for the majority to see the light of day, but when they do, they sure do come around.

[Omega]

We were having a bit of a boom - everything was going fantastically, plenty of money and no worries... the wars were keeping everyone's attention firmly focused overseas.

 

The banks and finance companies started lending money to people who weren't going to be able to pay it back, and to people who could - but only if things stayed good...

 

Then the recession hit.

 

And people lost their jobs. Then those people really weren't able to pay back their loans. These people lost houses. Some people still have houses yeah, but some are stuck with mortgages worth more than their houses are worth. Some people can't afford to feed their kids, they're so in debt.

 

Your government doesn't really have fallbacks. Not much of a social security safety net. People can't pay for medical care.... that's just disgusting. It horrifies me that people can't even go to the doctor.

 

You know what my Government did?

Put money into people. Passed a bill so that certain debts, if under $40k, would be forgiven. Blank slate. The finance companies pretty much collapsed overnight. It was awesome. Yes, people lost out when companies collapsed - some people lost all their savings. On the whole, though, we're better off without it.

 

You know what your government did?

Put money into corporations. Bailed out your banks and a couple of big manufacturers.

Some of the banks have increased their fees, and paid hige amounts to their CEO's and execs. Some of the manufacturers have outsourced. More people lost jobs.

You were fucked then, and you're still fucked now.

You've got high unemployment, especially among youth.

And these people literally have nothing better to do. See, when this happened in Spain, and in Greece, hell, even in London with their riots - things get violent. They will get violent.

Worse, you guys have guns.

 

 

Most of these people don't want handouts - they'd love it if there was, because, hey, free money, but having a job - feeling useful - is just better. They want something to CHANGE, they're not quite sure what, but they're angry because all this shit has gone wrong with their lives, and they don't know why. And all they can see is no money and no food, and no medical care, and on minimum wage, if that, while the companies that their government bailed out fire people and move overseas, while paying their bosses enough for 100 people to live on comfortably for a year, and giving them sometimes literally millions of dollars in severance.

I mean, what the fuck?

I'm pissed and it doesn't really concern me.

 

 

[Fake]

Ye ken what?

 

Fuck politics.

 

Fuck America.

 

And, above all:

 

Fuck the American people.

 

I have an excuse for my ignorance about what's going on in the world, what the issues are at the moment, and what we should do to make things better. I'm seventeen.  I can't vote. And I'm starting to read newspapers and all that jazz regardless. Which is a lot more than pretty much anyone else can say.

 

Fuck the right wingers. Most of America--hell, most of your party is in the center of the bell curve that is American politics. So stop fucking choosing the biggest extremists you can find. McCain? I LIKED McCain. I would have voted for him if it weren't for the idiot you lot chose as his VP! (And if it weren't for the fact that I can't vote...) I know that what the majority wants isn't always what's best for America, but at least take the majorities' political beliefs into consideration! And your goddamn morals and ideals, the ones you set up after Clinton or whatever? They're not Christian! They're human! You'd have to be someone like me to not agree with them! And, hell, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they don't believe in your so called Christian ideals.

 

Fuck  the left wingers. Guys, claiming to be open minded and shit is great and all, but it's meaningless unless you goddamn practice what you preach. You're no better than the right wingers--they vote up, you vote down. They vote black, you vote white. This goes for both of you, but you lot especially, as you're all so high and mighty: actually agree with each other for once! Don't be so polarized when it comes to EVERYTHING unless it's actually because you truly believe something to be true. And sometimes you have to vote against your own party. Why? Because you have free fucking will! Don't just do whatever your party says, actually think for yourselves! Christ's dice, what is it with you two?

 

And finally, fuck myself. I know, I know, I couldn't vote for all that time, but shouldn't I have cared? Shouldn't I have actually given a damn about what was going on? About how no progress has been made for the past four years because nobody is willing to compromise? Instead, I chose to play along, believing what my parents believed and just being an idiot because things felt right. Republicans and Conservatives are all evil, Christianity hates gay people, taking away the money from the rich and giving it to the poor is the ideal system, blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Fuck, fuck, fuck.

[EndOfTheEarth]

Here, I think you'll like this:

 

"The Americans will always do the right thing... after they've exhausted all the alternatives." -- Winston Churchill

The same quote was repeated by Neil Armstrong at a Senate hearing regarding the new launch system being worked on.

 

But it's a double-edged point. We will, pull through, even if it takes us a frustratingly long time to do it.

[Contradiction]

This goes for both of you, but you lot especially, as you're all so high and mighty: actually agree with each other for once!

I mean, maybe it's because I'm firmly a left-winger, but did you fucking pay attention to the debt ceiling debate this summer? Then tell me which party is more intransigent. Obama bent over-fucking-backward to accommodate Boehner and his Tea Party-ing extremists. 

I'm not saying that Democrats aren't inclined to vote against whatever the Republicans propose, but when the right is letting its extremist minority control the debate, there's something seriously wrong.

And have you listened to the people who've come forward as their next Presidential candidates? It's a battle between securing the primary nomination (the extremist vote) and being an electable candidate in the general election (center-right). And the moderates are not the ones whose voices are being listened to. Herman fucking Cain is the frontrunner.

[Fake]

To be fair, most of my complaints against the left wingers was for the sake of being unbiased and fair. I was originally not going to put anything, but then decided to walk a mile in the Republicans' shoes. I might have overdone it.

 

In any case, I do think that it's the conservatives/republicans/whatever who are causing the most trouble, which is sad because they used to be totally likeable. The Democrats are, admittedly, quite a bit more diplomatic than their opposites.

 

That dinnae mean I can't get angry at the ones who refuse to bend, however. The extremists and whatnot.

 

And yeah, I agree that it's better to control the system than to let extremists have full reign. I just think that it'd be great if we could at least occasionally cooperate.

 

Sorry if that wasn't clear. To be honest, you're completely right (Or as far as I know. I'm still learning how this thing works.) I apologize.

 

In my defense, I wrote that after 29 hours of consciousness. Blargh, insomnia sucks.

[Contradiction]

I'm still learning how this thing works.

Me too, I suppose, actually.

 

And I'm pretty sure I came across as a bitch, and I'm sorry. >.> *wouldn't write it like that again*

 

Ick. Sorry. :\

[Fake]

No, no, no.

 

You might have come off as a bit defensive, but I can't really blame you. I kind of gave everyone, you and your political beliefs included, the middle finger for things I can't really say are statistically accurate. Perfectly understandable and reasonable. I mean, maybe you weren't polite about it, but I wasn't polite about what I wrote either. No worries.

 

I'm going to try and get some sleep in a bit. All previous attempts for the past two or so days have been more futile than usual. Methinks I should see my...person-who-gives-me-drugs-ologist. (Can't remember the name of the profession...)

[Xuut]

Little interesting tid bit about Left-Wingers, most youth are left because we're idealistic, hopeful, naive, little bastards (which I realize at the wording of this, makes it sound really bad. It's not, just some of the things people want are really difficult to achieve) and then during a period of our lives most people stop voting. Youth vote because we care (and because we depend on the government) then when our dependence decreases we stop. Then as we get older again, we start to vote again, only this time Right.

 

Why?

 

Because everyone likes to keep their money.  

 

I'm Left, but I can't wait to see myself, twenty years from now, bitchin' out about the ridiculous Democrat leader or whatever. Be interesting to see how I changed. 

[Contradiction]

Yes, as to the why young people are usually leftist, but according to my gov book, it's mostly old people who vote. And according to my gov teacher, we should start voting at 13 (because school could educate us about issues and shiz without the inherent bias of the media). 

 

Same. Although in 20 years we'll still be relatively young.